CoE AntiCorruption Head Kos to EuroFora on Greek riots: Reformers+Protestors to join forces v. Debt?

Surprising Data from an EU experts' Report and topical CLRAE's Debates, confirmed the possibility and urgent need for honest People among those protesting in Greece, and conscious Reformers, to join forces to start fighting the persisting results of Corruption from the 1980-2010 era, which provoked a growing Debt, in order  to prevent an even Worse Crisis, and ensure at least an elementary Justice and Economic efficiency, as it was stressed as a matter of principle, during the Giant Mass Demonstrations and Deadly clashes in front of the Greek Parliament, by CoE's Anti-Corruption body GRECO's experienced, long-time President Drago Kos, speaking to "EuroFora" :

 - "If both sides are Serious, in what they say about Fighting Corruption, then, there shouldn't be no problem at all !", Kos optimistically but carefully replied to "EuroFora"s suggestion by largely agreeing on the substance.

+ "Of course, fighting Coruption should be done in the Legal ways. But, finally, to fight Corruption is to establish Justice, and also, because Corruption is (often) causing a lot of Economic Damages, that also means that  those Damages will be, if not eliminated, at least, (substantially) Decreased", President Kos went ont to add specifically on cases as that of the 1980-2010 period in Greece.

=> "So, if they are all Serious, then, (normally), they would find eachoher quite Soon !", CoE's PanEuropean Abti-Corruption watchdog's President concluded in reply to "EuroFora"s question, while clashes which made 1 Dead and 75 Wounded were unfolding between more than 100.000 Protestors and the Police in front of the Greek Parliament while it was called to vote a controversial deal on a Debt notoriously provoked by Past Corruption during 1980-2010 and Politico-Financial deals at EU level on 1999-2001, including even Turkey's unpopular EU bid, in exchange of Greece's precocious €uroZone entry, even before doing necessary Reforms, so that a former "Socialist" Government could survive in April 2000 Elections with a minimal difference of less than 1% of votes, (and some notorious Debt-Hidding tricks set up by USA's Goldman Sachs' "swaps" and Falsifications of EuroStat's data, reperecuted to the Media by a few unscrupulous EU bureaucrats then)...

- "Of course, it's going to be very Difficult, because it's not just enough to shout : - "Let's fight Corruption !", etc. Something has to be Really done. This also entails" a crystal-clear answer to another, related, key-question : - "Do you have agreed on (dealing efficientlyà with your (Country's) Past Mistakes ?", Kos pointed out. Because "you have to Cope with your Past Mistakes, and you have to Prove your Past Mistakes", he warned, making an indirect but topical reference also to what has notoriously happened in Greece during the 1980-2010 period.

- "And this, once again, involves some Possibilities", he optimistically concluded on the new Perspectives that such an approach can open..
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 => This made "EuroFora" ask GRECO's President if he found that, in such cases, strict and absolute Time Limits could and should put No Obstacle :  - "About the "Past Mistakes" (See supra)  : "Many simple People, but also Experts and/or Politicians, etc., are speaking about a 30 Years period" in Greece (notoriously 1980-2011, some even going up to 1974-2011). But, "recently we spoke (Comp. "EuroFora"s previous NewsReports) about Time-limits. Do you think that, when there is a Serious Problem, both from the Economic and Social point of view, even Politically and/or sometimes including at a Criminal level, then, there could or should be, at least for the most grave cases, a way to overcome Time-limits ?", we questioned Kos.

- "Yes : We (CoE) have Countries which already made that : F.ex. Croatia, where they have adopted a Special Law, in which they have not only Extended Time-limits, but they have also Excluded some Cases completely Out of Any Time-Limits !", for Prosecution of Corruption, Kos sharply observed in reply to "EuroFora"s question on the occasion of Greece's case.

- "F.ex." in Croatia, "the Gravest Crimes committed in the Economy, both during War and Post-War situations, are Not submitted to Time-Limits any more !". Thus, there is a Trial now going-on (even) on a former Prime Minister, based, mainly, on this (special) Law", CoE's experienced; key Official observed.

-  And for doing that, they hadn't even to be asked for, by CoE's Anti-Corruption watchdog GRECO : - "They (Croatian People) did it by themselves", Kos admired.

=> - "So, it's up to the (CoE Member) Countries to decide. Of course, there is a General Rule for Legal Certainty, that Offences have to be submitted to Time-Limits, sometimes", he acknowledged.  - "But, at the same time, f.ex. War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity, etc., are not submitted to Time-LImits", and "Specific Countries can also decide that Specific Crimes of Corruption are Not submitted to Time-Limits" for prosecution.  In fact, the substance of the matter is that "we (GRECO) never said that there shouldn't be No Time-Limits in general. But, what we (CoE) say is that there should be Enough Time for Investigation, Prosecution and Trial" of all those responsible , he clarified, (i.e. Contrary, f.ex., to some Laws in Greece where prosecution for Crimes of Corruption and others (even Grave : F.ex. including Murder, etc),  is Time-barred after 20, 10 or even only 5 Years !)...

    - CoE's experienced  Anti-Corruption Top Official even explicitly and specifically agreed with "EuroFora" that such a PanEuropean  Principle applies also, f.ex. to cases of Corruption and/or other Crimes which had started to be "committed may be even 20 or 30 Years ago", but whose "results" still affect People and/or Societies today, as, "f.ex. several people denounce for the real causes which provoked such a huge Debt to the detriment of Greece and €uroZone, during 1980-2010, whose consequences appeared in full light only in recent years (2008-2009+), etc.

    - In this particular regard, Kos revealed to "EuroFora" that CoE's Anti-Corruption watchdog is currently waiting to receive and check a New Report "on what the Government of Greece has done" until now for the Fight against Corruption, which will be debated and voted, together with a Specific and Detailed Resolution, around "Spring 2012".

    And, "of course", on this occasion, it will be possible for the CoE to "take into account anything that might happen" meanwhile, "until the Date of the adoption of the (Spring 2012)Report" for the Government of Greece's compliance with CoE's Anti-Corruption general standards and country-specific recommendations already made in the recent past. Thus, other Governments, European/International Organizations, NGOs, political parties and businesses, Media and journalists, Experts, citizens, etc. can provide any relevant information they deem important to the competent CoE's Secretariat of GRECO in Strasbourg, Kos confirmed.
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- Young representative from Greece, CoE Speaker, endorses the main thrust of this Anti-Corruption aproach of the Debt :
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+ Key points highlighted at Kos' dialogue with "EuroFora" were earlier endorsed in substance by a Young Greek former Demonstrator, Giorgos Georgiades, chosen by another CoE's body, the PanEuropean Congres of Local/Regional Authorities (CLRAE),  to speak and exchange views during a Plenary Debate on "New forms of Citizen Activism and Urban violence", in the wider framework of this week's Central Issue on "Living Together in Dignity",  held in Strasbourg just 1 Day before a 53 Years old, Jobless Worker, Father of two, was killed, 4 others Operated in Hospitals and at least 73 Wounded, reportedly during various violences and controversial Gas attacks by Police, etc., faced by Demonstrators at the Constitution square, while PASOK's Government was voting a Deal it negociated with EU/IMF Experts by  a diminishing Majority of just 4 votes more, (threatened to lower down to 3 since an MP already anounced her refusal to continue the same exercice next time) :

- "I used to be proud of being Greek, since it was the Historic land of Democracy, of Philosophy, etc. But, things change : Now it's the land of Corruption, of Debt !", Georgiades denounced from the outset, acknowledging that he was even pushed to feel "ashamed", particularly when he traveled through Germany to reach CoE's Headquarters in Strasbourg.

  - So that, "today, Young Generations have to pay for Errors of the Past 30 Years", (i.e. during 1980-2010, as "EuroFora" has repeatedly denounced), CoE's invited Speaker pointed out in a Central point of his speech.

- Because, in substance, "Governing parties gave the Power only to a Few : This was called by the Ancient Greeks an "Oligarchy"", he criticized, surprisingly using on 2011 a similar Terminology as that which had become a commonplace in former "Eastern/"Socialist" European Countries, openly since the 1980-1990ies..

=> Particularly, "when People have No more Hope, then, things get Dangerous", he warned, speaking 1 Day before clashes in Athens provoked by Controversies on the way to deal with the Unprecedented, huge Debt stemming from a remote Past (1980-1990ies) but recently "exploding" out of proportions (2009-2011), start to become Deadly for the 1st time (See supra).
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=> "All those corrupted officials who took part in so many scandals during decades, won't pay anything ?", he, naively but profoundly, wondered, speaking later to "EuroFora".

- Many People, even Young like me, as things go worse, have started to search, more and more seriously; to find what really happened, and what was the real cause of that exceptional and growing Debt, and, therefore, were obliged to analyse perrtinent Facts from the start, i.e. since the 1980ies, speaking more and more often about these "30 Years" or so, he explained to "EuroFora", astonished to see a youngster guess the main causes of a social phenomenon spreading between 1980-2011, i.e. practically during all his life-time..

+ Even more surprising, the Greek Youngster, former "demonstrator" himself, spontaneously agreed with "EuroFora"s question whether he found that Greek People's struggle against Corrupted Officials could join real EU Reformers' wish to make efficient Economic Reforms also by fighting against Corruptions' results, by investigating and firing or even prosecuting all those who illegally usurpated a job in the Public Sector for many years, and/or commited various abuses, corruption or crimes during the last 30 Years of the 1980-2010 period. I.e. when a notorious Nepotism appointed Thousands of useless Cushy Job Holders in the payroll of the Greek State since the 1980ies, many among them being also unpopular and/or Oppressive Political Lackeys, even some seriously Corrupted Criminals, etc. Given particularly the Fact that the Initial Cause of that Huge Debt was the imbalance provoked by such "Clientelist/Nepotist" Mass-hirings mainly during the 1980-1990ies, which was Hidden (by USA's Goldman Sachs' swaps, and EuroStat's Falsified Data), when former "Socialist" Governments in the EU (Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. on 1999-2001) decided Greece's entry into €uroZone earlier than normal, i.e. even without doing previously the necessary Reforms, on condition that Athens would drop any objection against Turkey's controversial and unpopular EU bid (launched since 12/1999 at EU's Helsinki Summit), even without previously meeting any of the well-known criteria on Human Rights/Democracy, Military Occupation of Cyprus, threats at the Aegean Sea, recognition of the Armenian Genocide, political Solution of the Kurdish problem, etc.

A well known "Politico-Financial Deal", which allowed Turkey to start receiving many Hundreds of Millions € of EU Grants each year as so-called "Candidate", and to a former "Socialist" Government in Greece to win April 2000 Elections with less than 1% of difference and stay 4 more Years in power. But resulted in the notorious Political and Monetary Crisis in Europe, after the 1999-2004 unprecedented Majority Abstentions in EU Elections, followed also by the 2005-2007 three "No" to EuroReferenda on EU Constitution, etc., as well as by the recent €uroZone upheaval, which inflated the Debt thus provoked in Greece afrter the Global Crisis and exploited it by Global Speculation and Foreign Competition against the EU since 2009-2010. (Comp. previous "EuroFora"s relevant Publications, particularly since 12/2009 NewsReports from Bonn and Brussels, etc).

- I agree with all that, as most People also would be likely to. "But we need adequate, New Political Leaders", was the the final reply by the Greek Youngster chosen as a key-note Speaker by CoE's Youth services, to the avobe mentioned "EuroFora"s observations... However, he also appeared to agree that, sometimes, Ideas simply can set things in Motion, when freely and adequately spread accross the right People, genuinly and sincerely concerned by such EU-level issues...
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But, meanwhile, Georgiades earlier statements at CLRAE's plenary had started to stir several reactions inside CoE :

 - "I heard our Greek friend claim that he was Ashamed to be Greek, etc. This shocked us very much. Because one hasn't to be ashamed to be Greek". On the contrary, "People should be Proud" for that. Because "Greece is the Birthplace (Cradle) of our Democracy, and, therefore, it's a Country which has a Value for us (Europe)", stressed the experienced Jean-Louis Testud, Deputy Mayor of Suresnes in France, from the Governing party UMP, (Center-Right).

 - "I think that, today, Greece faces a Grave (Financial) Crisis, (but) it's supported by many EU Countries, and I'm persuaded that we (€uroZone Countries) shall succeed to find, all united together, adequate Solutions in order to overcome these difficulties". "We (CoE) must not be misled by false appearances, but better make deep analysis, in order to present strong proposals, particularly on Young People", concluded the experienced mainstream French representative from the Governing Majority, (who later told "EuroFora" that he was expressing views fundamentaly shared by the entire French Delegation to the CoE).

 - Some attempt to discriminate against and mark the Greek People with the worst colors, but we (CoE) must react and debate such issues, also "because what happens now in Greece might happen, tomorrow in Spain, in Italy or elsewhere in Europe", so that "we must show Solidarity to Greece", added also Socialist French representative Roger Gilbert, vice-President of Saint Denis' Department.

- "I was personally Shocked when I saw, f.ex., that the DEXIA (Belgian-French) Bank which was earlier giving us Lessons here (at the CoE) on how to manage Local Finances, etc., faces now itself a grave Crisis, which threatens to affect many Towns and Citizens", Gilbert critically observed, pointing at the 2008-2011 growing Crisis of DEXIA, which broke out shortly after it took the Risk to spend its Capital into buying a Turkish Bank on 2006, and curiously persisted, up to 2011, into explicitly basing all its Development Strategy ...merely on this Turkish Bank alone, even up to the 2014 Horizon, (thus losing markets' and citizens' trust, particularly since it was unable to find anew the Capital it spend to buy 98% of that Turkish outlet) !...
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+ Astonishing Data from EU Experts' Report on the Deal negociated with the current PASOk Government in Greece :
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    However, astonishing Data, just published these Days, from EU Experts' Report on the concrete Details of the proposed Deal with the current PASOK Government in Greece, curiously reveal that the main thrust of the suggested "Economies" risk to be paid, not by those, in the Public Sector, who committed, profited from and/or exploited the notorious Corruption, Nepotism or even Crimes and well known or still hidde Scandals of the 1980-2010 period which provoked the present Debt, but, on the contrary, by innocent Citizens of the Private sector, Businessmen and even more Poor People and the Young Generation, who are threatened to face extremely Hard conditions (including Precarious, badly paid, Low-quality Jobs, or even total Unemployment, etc),  in order to pay even ...early Retirement schemes for many Thousands of cushy-job holders, political lackeys of Nepotist Governmenrts of the Past (notoriousmy mainly PASOK's, etc), regardless if they were also corrupted, abusive, oppressive or even criminal in their activities which led to the present Crisis !

    Indeed, among various such Converging EU Experts' Data, f.ex. a Graphic shows that, according to the proposed Deal, the Greek State's Expenses are not at all expected to be reduced, but will, on the contrary, continue to grow even at the present crucial Financial situation up to 2014 and more, (while, on the contrary, expected Revenue for the Greek State would follow with much Slower and Lower developments, thus, inevitably augmenting the already huge Deficit).

    The main reason for that appears to be the astonishing fact that, according to the Deal negociated with the current PASOK Government, ... NOBODY, not even one (1) individual, ISN'T FIRED among the many Thousands of notoriously useless Cushy Job Holders, Political Lackeys and other UnPopular Abusive, Oppressive agents, not even those who are more or less Corrupted and/or suspected to be involved also in various Criminal acts, etc., who have been Scandalously appointed during the 1980-2010 crucial period by several, mainly PASOK, previous Governments, with a notorious Clientelism, political Favoritism and Discriminations, Nepotism, etc, (comp. supra) !

    On the contrary, all or most of this critical Mass of Political "Clients" or even Lackeys of Past PASOK a.o. Governments, whose (more or less Useless and/or Excessive) Salaries and Benefits during 30 Years (1980-2011) have notoriously provoked the Huge Debt now exploited against Greece and Europe by the Global Crisis and Speculation, are due to be even ... rewarded, (on the expense of Taxayers' money, including of Poor People, obliged to pay VAT in all their transactions), by being given the benefit of ... Early Retirement !...

    Thus, another, particularly important EU Experts' Report's Graphic, reveals that nearly 90.000 holders of Jobs in the Public Sector are due to benefit from "Normal" or early "Retirement" "Schemes" this Year and the Next (2011 + 2012), and that this is going to continue, for many Tens of Thousands each Year, up to 2015 included....  In addition,  on 2013 alone, some 15.000 are due to be placed in a kind of "Reserve", until they either return back to Office, or they also might get Retirement benefits next year...

Nobody, not even one, isn't simply fired, not even after abusively and scandalously wasting Taxpayers' Money for 30 Years of useless Salaries usurpated from a State thus condemned to Deficits and Debts during the 1980-2010 period, (comp. Supra)...

    => In other words, to put it in a nutshell : It's mainly the Productive sector of the Private Economy (already badly hit and pushed to Recession by earlier controversial Measures), the Young and the Poor People (even the Poorest : Precarious, Minimal Salaries or even Unemployed paying VAT and other Taxes, etc), who are threatened to have to pay even for the ...early Retirement of some 150.000 Cushy Job Holders who benefited from Permanent, well-paid Jobs in the Greek State already during the last 30 Years (1980-2010), in addition to all the other remaining Cushy Job Holders in the Public sector, even those who were Scandalously hired in the Past by Clientelist, Nepotist Governments, even if they are also, more or less Useless and Counter-Productive, Abusive and/or Oppressive Political Lackeys, Corrupted or even Criminals...

    And this is due to continue for many Years more, even Decades, endlessly, since Nothing is foreseen in this strange Deal with the current PASOK Government in order to at least start trying to definitively Purge the Greek State from all that notoriously Counter-Productive or even Useless, often Corrupted Salary Mass of various cushy job holders and other Unpopular, abusive, oppressive or even sometimes Criminal "clients" of a Desastrous past Nepotism during the 1980-2010 period which provoked and still keeps going this Huge, Unprecedented Debt, furthermore exploited by Global Speculation against all €uroZone !

    Obviously, such a Deal risks to perpetuate most of the current Financial Problems and even to aggravate People's feeling of Injustice,

    instead of, on the contrary, taking, at last, some Resolute Measures to Urgently and Definitevely Purge the Greek State from all those Unpopular, Counter-Productive, Abusive and/or even Corrupted cushy job holders that a Nepotism of the Past let them practically take Hostage of all the Greek Society and People already for 30 Years (1980-2010), even of the Poorest, even of the Young Generation, threatened now by even worse (See supra).

    Only such an Anti-Corruption Movement, supported by Popular demands for Justice, and Economic Needs for Efficient Reforms, also opening by a special Law a possibility to Investigate all Serious Wrong doing, Scandals and/or Crimes eevntually committed by Suspects who had usurpated some Cushy Jobs in the State-controled sector during that crucial 1980-2010 period in Greece etc., or even Top Political Responsibility posts, (Comp. supra, CoE's AntiCorruption watchdog GRECO's President Kos' statements to "EuroFora"), could really help see, at last, some Light at the end of the tunnel, and allow New Perspectives at a Future Horizon.

    Meanwhile, careful, IMF, (now headed by experienced Christine Lagarde), reserved its right to get a closer look on the concrete details of the proposed EU/IMF Deal negociated with the current PASOK Government in Greece, (which keeps no more than a ...3 votes "Majority" today), while EU/€uroZone Heads of State/Government also have just decided to extend their deliberations in Brussels from Sunday up to next Wednesday...

    Will this be enough to change, or at least Start a New, Healthy and Efficient Trend soon, particularly if all those involved realize that a Real and sustainable Solution is, in fact, more Simple than some thought, if the Right Strategy is chosen on time, with Political insight able to trigger Powerful social Dynamics, by succesfuly joining Justice and Efficiency together (comp. Supra) ?